🎙️73. Healing Corporate Dysregulation with Kelly Jackson

podcast

Apr 25

the spiritual 9-5 podcast transcript

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Episode Published on April 23, 2024

Transcript:

Intro to the Intro

Kelly Jackson is not a stranger to The Spiritual 9-5. If you’ve been around awhile, you’ve heard her voice before, perhaps back when she was Kelly Anderson. Today, she joins us again to talk about dysregulation in the workplace and why we often feel dysregulated in corporate. Y’all, this episode is juicy.

Kelly is a certified life coach, spiritual mentor, and former 9-to-5 corporate ladder climber with a deep passion for mindset and somatics. After navigating several massive life changes, Kelly experienced a soul awakening that set her on the path of fully stepping into her purpose. Through her coaching business, she helps change-makers and soul-driven individuals shift from feeling stuck to thriving in their ‘F*ck Yes Life.’ Kelly is incredible and I’m thrilled to bring you this conversation about healing corporate dysregulation.

Intro Music 🎶

I believe that working can be one of the most spiritual paths that we walk.

Whether that work is turning your passion into a business, or sitting behind a desk for eight hours a day, or anywhere beyond and in between. And yet, we often take the way in which we show up to work for granted, even though it's where we spend the majority of our time.

Here on The Spiritual 9–5 Podcast, we talk about that. We talk about entrepreneurship, we talk about the 9 to 5, we talk about what it's like to be multi-passionate, and talented, and inspired, and also utterly demotivated.

We are here to support you in your work, whether your work is sacred to you, or just something that you do to get by. We are here to help you see and know yourself a little bit deeper, and to inspire you to show up no matter what it is that you find.

I'm your host, Marie Groover, and like you I am as multi-passionate as they come. I'm the founder of two businesses that are here to bring the soul back into the office. I, too, work a 9 to 5 in corporate tech.

I'm a surfer, a writer, a philosopher-artist, if you will, and I'm so excited to bring you this episode today. If you haven't, please leave the show a 5-star rating, and if this episode resonates, consider saving it and sharing it with someone you think it would resonate with too.

Intro music fades 🎶

Marie Groover: Hi, Kelly.

Kelly Jackson: Hello, Marie.

MG: Okay. So today, I have a few questions. I'm gonna hit you with all of the questions actually just to start, and then we'll see where this takes us. So, kind of the main question that I have in mind is: Why does corporate dysregulate our nervous systems, and what can we do about it?

Beneath that question, I am curious, what does dysregulation look like? How do you know when you're dysregulated And how do you know when your career is contributing to that dysregulation?

So I'll pause to see how all of this lands with you. And yeah.

KJ: Yeah. We're just jumping in with all the juicy questions up front. I love it! I love this topic, and I can't wait to see where this goes today. But, yeah, let's explore. Why is corporate dysregulating? And, again, like, like you said, what does it actually mean to feel dysregulated? I think we need to peel back the layers to really understand “what does it feel like when you're in dysregulation?”

And that may vary, I think, from person to person. And I know for me, when I am in a dysregulated state, I feel very frantic internally. I feel chaotic. I can feel stifled. I can feel burnt out to an extent. But I can also feel this sense of wanting to take action, but maybe a confusion around what action that is to take. And so maybe all encompassing, I would call it, like, a stirring. Like, ‘unsettled stirring’ would maybe be the best way to describe how I feel personally when I'm in a dysregulated state. And, and by the way, this is coming from when I was in my corporate career and how I felt when I was dysregulated. So that's, that's the angle that I'm speaking from, to be clear.

MG: This is so good. Yeah. A stirring. I love what you said about wanting to take action, but not being clear on what that action is. When I think about times that I felt dysregulated or when I feel dysregulated, that is often…it's almost like this internal panic to move or to decide or to know. And this like reaching for the facts when there sometimes aren't facts available. It's like trying my hardest. It's almost like scrambling for something to hold on to.

I almost always know when I'm dysregulated or when I need grounding, because I think especially at work, dysregulation is so sneaky because I think we've learned to live that way for a really, really long time even before work. We've just learned to handle a low level of stress or anxiety or a low level of discomfort. And we almost see that as our normal waking life every day or existence.

But for me, what I've come to really find as, like, a guidepost where, “oh, you're a little dysregulated right now,” is when I reach for food to ground myself. So something that I'll do that I did a lot in times of stress at work in the corporate world would be to, like, eat all day at my desk or to and, and even now, you know, when I'm feeling a little bit ungrounded, I'm feeling a little bit whirly on the inside, I will reach for food. I'm like, “Okay. I need snacks.”

And it's never like broccoli. I'm never like, I want broccoli right now. It's always like, I need cookies. I need crackers. I need, you know, things that I don't really need. Not that we should not eat those things. I think we can eat whatever we want to. But I always know when I'm dysregulated because I'll have cravings, like, intense cravings that are completely independent of my cycle, and it'll be more just like my way of handling stress. And so when I start to feel that now, I'm like, okay. I'm a little stressed out. What's going on? Let's pause for a second. Yeah.

KJ: That resonates so much. Because we can, like you said, see some of these dysregulated traits coming out in ways that maybe we wouldn't expect. We wouldn't maybe necessarily immediately point to the fact that we're reaching for snacks as a sign that, “Hey. Maybe I'm dysregulated.”

But to your point, right, like, what actions or behaviors come forth unconsciously? And can we create consciousness around it? Because there may be something underneath that, and it may be a sign of that dysregulation. I know for me, sometimes it's, I can't sit still and be with myself. I need to be on the move or I need to be around people. I need to be numbing myself with something, whether that's going out and being around community or watching Netflix or whatever. And none of these things are bad inherently. It's are you doing it from a numbed out or even avoidance state, when you're really feeling something deep down internally that wants to be addressed?

MG: I think about back in college, I lived with 4 girls. There were 5 of us living in 1 house, and we all, like, needed to do things together all the time. Like, a couple of us in the house literally could not go grocery shopping alone. Like, needed someone to go to the grocery store with us. And I think part of that came from not being regulated and not being comfortable being alone. I think this is such a great example of being dysregulated or being under low levels of stress or high levels of stress is like reaching for something to distract you from feeling the discomfort. Because when you're quiet and alone for a moment, you feel the discomfort of being, 1) of being human, which I think is inherently uncomfortable sometimes. But 2) you know, when there is something in your life that is maybe calling for you to acknowledge it, it can be hard to be with it, to be with that thing. And it can be so much easier to do something else.

I was just talking to a client today who woke up with anxiety and it was like the most amazing messages that she sent me. But she was talking about waking up with anxiety and then doing everything that she knew to make it go away, you know, breath work, all the things. Right? Like moving down this list to get rid of it.

And, you know, there was a question that came up of, like, “How can I just be with it? What's the point if I can't address it?” Right? And sometimes, like, we learn these amazing tools for grounding ourselves, but then we even use those to numb. Right? We even use those to just, like, change our state and change our being versus learning how to be with the feeling so that the feeling goes away. Which is something that I definitely don't think we allow for ourselves in the corporate space.

So when I think about, you know, the way that I've managed stress in corporate before has been, like, more work. I'm just like, let me distract myself from this work by doing this other work. I had a coworker who went through, like, a cancer experience and, you know, ended up showing up to work even more kind of like before and then after. And, you know, part of their reason was, like, actually having that distraction.

And, you know, there's part of me that's like, oh, I totally understand that. I think we all can relate to that of, like, yeah, I need to just to distract myself from these feelings. And the thing that's actually gonna help us most sometimes is just feeling the feelings. Right? It's allowing them to be there and seeing what's on the other side and meeting ourselves in that space, lest we continue, like, a perpetual cycle of avoidance, feeling a little bit, avoidance, feeling a little bit.

KJ: That's what's so hard though, Marie, is we're not properly taught how to feel our feelings and sit with a feeling, especially one that we would identify as uncomfortable. From a young age, we're told, like, “here's how you make this go away,” and we have to numb the pain or we have to move through the pain. It's, it's never, “Hey. Allow that full expression of the feeling to simply be there.” Like, we're never taught how to do that. And, and like you said, like, these mindfulness hacks are just really tricky ways of bypassing the feeling because we're like, oh, if I just meditate in 10 minutes, hopefully, it goes away. Right? Like, we're, we're still trying to be sneaky about making the feeling go away.

And I think in the corporate setting, what's what makes this really challenging is that corporate just continues to become so much more fast paced year over year, decade over decade. Right? We're running from meeting to meeting. And within those meetings, we've got texts and emails coming through. And in between meetings, we're trying to catch our coworker in the hallway that we needed to talk to them about something really quickly. We barely have time to go on a bathroom break. We're eating lunch at our desks if we're still working in an office or even at home.

And so we're expected to be these master multitaskers and be present in 15 different arenas at a time. And that in and of itself, like, creates massive dysregulation because our nervous system is on fire all day trying to keep up with the schedule and, and the calendar.

And once work is done for the day, you know, many of us have responsibilities and other things that we have interests in, whether that's being with our families or taking our kids to practice or going to the gym or whatever our hobby is. So it's like, we're still not allowing that time and space to feel what occurred during that day and to allow it to exist. And so over time, I have to imagine that buildup can become pretty detrimental to our bodies, to our souls, to our energy. It's a lot.

MG: I'm just like, “Oh, this is the answer to why corporate is so dysregulating to us.” Which I think is the big, the big kind of overarching question, right, is: why do we feel so dysregulated by corporate? And when you, and by working in corporate and by being adjacent to corporate, but when you broke it down just as that, I'm like, “oh, well, why wouldn't it be dysregulating? Like, why would that not be the healthiest alternative for us to walk through in life?”

I think about even now, working full time again, the amount of times I've eaten lunch at my desk, knowing that that's not the most nourishing thing for my brain or for my body or for my soul, for my being, but doing it anyways. Because I'm like, “oh, if I just eat at my desk, I can at least do, read these emails or I can reply to this other stuff, so that I can finish all this stuff and finish all that stuff so that I can then later focus on my business.” Right? So that I know that when I shut it down, I can restart in a different way. Whereas, like, potentially, the most nourishing thing is to just leave my office for 30 minutes. I should just, like, walk outside for a moment, to go for a walk, to to do, not eat my lunch at my desk.

I also think about, you know, the amount of times I've had to pee, and I've just held it because I've been on call after call after call. And now, you know, years, after 10 plus years being in corporate, I, like, have chronic UTIs. And it's, it's hilarious actually because up until this moment, I didn't really connect to that. Right? I just thought, oh, maybe surfing, wet suits, you know, like, for months, I've been like, oh, months, like years now, I've been like, oh, why is this a thing? And then as you're talking about not even giving ourselves bio breaks, I'm like, oh, that's totally why that's a thing. Because I've spent years just training my bladder to be on these holding it marathons. Which, you know, it it all, I think sometimes we, we get caught up in the productivity and in the moment, and we think these short term gains are, like, the most important things in front of us.

Like, oh, it's no big deal. Or we think these, you know, tiny betrayals of self are tiny and they're no big deal, but they add up and there's actually a significant cost that comes with that. Right? Whether that's chronic UTIs or something else entirely. So I think just what a beautiful, almost summary of, of course, of course, working in corporate is dysregulating. Of course, it's maybe not the most nourishing thing at times. Not just because of the culture, but but definitely because of the culture, but also the way that we choose to show up and interact.

And I say that because I, a spiritual coach, and, like, I work a full time job and I still do these things to myself. Right? And it's these tiny things I think that…are not so tiny in the long run.

KJ: Right. And using you as an example, the body will always eventually be the spokesperson of wisdom to communicate when we are dysregulated or out of balance. And it, it can feel shocking and uncomfortable when the body communicates to us in that way.

And I just think that corporate doesn't help educate us on not only how to regulate ourselves, but also, like, signs to look out for of when you're not regulated. Right? Like, we have to take the initiative to understand, like, if my body is talking to me, then that might mean I need to to look at how I am spending my days and spending my life. You know? Even if it's something as simple as I'm not even taking a bio break so that I can do all these meetings. Right?

MG: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what a good, what a good, like, what a good note. Corporate doesn't teach us to do these things. I know you and I have talked about this before, but I'm curious. What's your stance on, like, where's the responsibility lie when it comes to, our bodies? And not just our bodies, because obviously, I think we can really easily make the argument that we ourselves are accountable for our bodies. But, but I would say of our entire embodiment, our way of being, the way that we show up at work, and we'll, we'll leave this at work since we're talking about corporate. You know, where does the responsibility lie in terms of body and soul and person nourishment in the corporate world?

KJ: Mmmm, this is a good, good question here. And…there's a few different ways that I feel compelled to answer it. But I wanna just start with saying, I am pro sovereignty – meaning that I very much believe that we are responsible for our own individual lives, how we choose to live them, the decisions that we make, and how we choose to nourish and take care of ourselves. So I wanna just start by saying, like, the onus is on the individual. That's my opinion.

And when we choose to partner with an organization in our careers, that organization does have a set of expectations. Right? Like, there's roles and responsibilities in your job. There's a matrix of performance expectations. Right? So you can't just be there. You still have to show up and extend a level of energy to meet or exceed expectations of what the organization has asked you to do for them, in exchange for a salary and benefits. So there is still this relationship, this partnership that's at play here.

And so, while we we do have the individual choice to work for corporate, I also believe that if corporate wants to thrive and succeed and see their employees happy, healthy, fulfilled, etc., then they do have a responsibility in ensuring they are providing education, trainings, workshops, tools, what have you, that are nourishing to a body's whole self or a person's whole self.

And, and to me, like, this goes beyond like, “Hey. Like, let's go do yoga at lunch together, everybody!” Like, fine. But…but how can we, like, invite corporate to create more genuine and authentic care in its employees that do so much for them? How can we invite and encourage corporate to provide tools and modalities around, like, somatic awareness, somatic breathwork, more flexibility around working from home, for example, that may feel more regulating to a human being, more flexibility with PTO if that allows for more well-being. Like, things like that are what come up for me, and some organizations, I think, do okay here. But there's still this underlying energy that I see that even when you take a work from home day or you take a 10-day vacation, there's still sort of this sense of, like, come down that has to happen with the nervous system. There's still some sense of like guilt, of like, signing out for a few weeks or a few days. And so how do we address that?

Like, how do we address the feelings, emotions, and inner stuff that comes up in our bodies, like, when we do take advantage of some of those benefits. So that's where I love to see corporate, like, innovate a little bit for its employees.

MG: Yes. So much yes. I'm just writing this down. Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned there's something I want to go back to. You mentioned “tools and modalities around somatic awareness,” and I know that you are working currently on somatic training. And I recently went through some somatic training as well.

I'm curious, what are some tools that you're learning about? What are some experiences that you're learning about that could feed into some of this innovation for the corporate space?

How might we prevent the comedown that we experience when we log off even for the evening. Right? Because I think about, I know so many people who finish their workday and immediately reach for a glass of wine or a beer. Not that it's bad to drink. I'm totally not an anti-drinking person. I think alcohol is amazing. Alcohol can be super fun. There are many times and places for alcohol, and I think that reaching for that glass is totally part of the calm down ritual of, whew, the day's over. I can relax. My state can shift now, and now I'm going to reach for this thing that's going to help me to relax. Right? It's gonna help me to come down, literally, from whatever it was that I was experiencing prior to this.

Really similarly when we go on vacation and we experience that come down. And then, you know, I think about a lot of people talk about the Sunday Scaries on Sunday night before going back to work on Monday. You start to almost have this rise up in energy where you're just like, ‘Oh my gosh. I'm starting to feel anxious again. I don't know if I'm ready.’ And so I'm curious, you know, what are you learning about now? What have you seen that could be supportive?

KJ: What's interesting is the somatic training that I'm in, which is Regenerative Alchemy with Dr. Sarah Coxon – she's absolutely brilliant at what she does. I didn't fully know what I was getting into, I thought it was gonna be learning all these tools and modalities and breathwork. And, like, there's a little little bit of that, but the overarching theme is really around noticing. Noticing your felt-sense, and that's it. And I make that sound so simple. It's really not.

But it is also very intuitive to allow yourself to drop into your body and notice what sensations are coming up. Notice if there's any colors that you're seeing. Notice if there's a temperature that is coming forth. Is there a body part that is experiencing something that wants to be seen? So it's really about noticing. That's, like, a super simplified way of putting it, but there's that.

And then she's really big on connecting to nature as well. So there's gonna be some incredible forthcoming material around regulating with nature. And so what this might look like in corporate is a little, it's a little innovative based on, like, where I see corporate today.

However, I'll go back to the example of going on vacation. It might take you two or three days to, like, really feel the effects of come down once you get to your vacation. Right? And at that point, it's almost too late. So I really see this as something where corporate should be instilling the invitation to employees to connect with their bodies daily, on a regular basis. Right? This should be a practice, so that, when you get to the point where you're taking a day or two off or maybe a full week or two vacation, you have been in practice already of connecting with your felt-sense and connecting with your body and understanding, like, what's spiking it, maybe what's, what state your nervous system is in. And you can be aware. It doesn't mean that it's gonna eliminate maybe that two to three day come down on your vacation, but you have much more awareness around it.

And so I just wonder what would the outcome be if we were to incorporate some sort of daily opt-in rituals for employees. You know? Like, is there a global optional call that you can dial into and someone leads you through a body scan? Is it, I don't know…there's a lot of options, I think. And it would just be very interesting, I think, to be a part of a company that prioritizes mind-body connection, mind-body-soul connection.

MG: I'm such a fan of this and it's something I haven't thought about. So with Essential Teams, I offer some somatic experiences that I no longer label as somatic experiences because what I found is much of the corporate world has never really heard the word somatic. They're not really sure what it means. It seems a little bit freaky for them. And then immediately when I start talking about the body, people's brains go to HR and they're like, ‘Oh my god, what is HR gonna say about this? Is this gonna make people really uncomfortable? Are people gonna complain? Is this safe?’

And it's, it's all, like, so cute. I find it cute and hilarious because I think, I think it's problematic, 1) when we've created a culture where it's offensive to talk about our bodies and we're human beings. Right? But the corporate world totally does, like, separate humans from, I don't know, employees. Right?

Sometimes we forget that we're human beings and that our bodies are there all the time. So I think a lot of times in corporate at work, we show up from the neck up. It's like we're fully operating from the brain. The body we're not even connected to the body. And so when you start talking about the body, people get a little freaked out. They're like, ‘Woah. What do you mean? What are you, what are you talking about? Like, the, the body. That's really weird.’

And so with Essential Teams, I've kinda started almost, like, masking the somatic elements, although we're just speaking about them a little bit differently. And I'll have a couple of different offerings that totally tap into exactly what you said. It's, it's all about noticing. Right? Like, one offering is called “From IQ to EQ,” and it's literally about practicing the felt-sense of empathy. Because, again, in corporate, I think we like to be on the intellectual side, be in the brains too much. And so we can talk about empathy all day, but, personally, I think that it doesn't make any difference at all until we practice it. Right? And practicing it is actually feeling empathy. It's not talking about empathy. It's not understanding empathy, but it's feeling empathy.

And so there's, you know, a a workshop that I guide people through, which is really just a somatic experience of practicing the felt-sense and of, of practicing that awareness. But / and it's like one workshop that you do one time that people never do again.

And so I love that you're, you're thinking about innovating in ways that actually provide daily rituals, right? That provide daily practices that are available for employees of just like, “Hey. Let's tune in to our energy. Let's tune in to our body. Let's do a body scan.” You know, which takes 30 seconds, really, before the start of your workday, and it takes no time at all.

I'm curious, 1) What do you think HR would think about this? 2) For those listening that maybe work at a company that is not so innovative or progressive just yet, what might they do? Because I think this is available to all of us. Right? So, like, how might someone listening integrate this into their everyday?

KJ: Hmm…what would HR do or think? Yikes. I don't know. I think it depends on how innovative your HR department is. I've worked with some fantastic HR partners in the past, and then there's some that fit maybe what we have all heard the stereotype of HR being, like, very much gatekeeping and what have you. So, probably depends on how evolved and innovative they are, and I think it would take a little coaxing maybe for, like, higher level leadership to educate them on, “Hey. Like, why is this non-revenue generating idea that we have actually important to the health of your employees, which is in the long run important to the health and growth of your business.” Right? Like, there would have to be a thread tied in there as to why it's important, which again is intellectualizing it for them. So, yeah, that's, that's the take there on, on what HR and leadership might think.

MG: I love this. Okay. Actually, hold on. Let's stick with this for just a second. Why is this non-revenue generating activity important for the long term?

KJ: Mmm, if you have employees that are able to regulate themselves, they are going to show up in a way that serves the organization better. And what I mean by that is that if an employee, if an employee is capable of regulating themselves, right, they know how to vouch for themselves. It means that they will then be able to put in energy towards their work from a more balanced place. It's not coming from burnout. It's not coming from desperation. It's not coming from, like, competition, let's say. It's coming from a place of, like, okay. I feel, like, grounded. I feel balanced. I feel regulated. So I can show up, like, in my fullest expression when I'm here to deliver whatever my work is to you.

And so I think if we are, are operating from our whole human self, like, that impacts the overall health of a team. Imagine a small team that's showing in their full health like, their full healthy selves. And then imagine a department showing up in their full healthy selves, and then imagine an entire business unit showing up in their full healthy selves. Like, that's a ripple effect that will then impact, like, how you're showing up for your outside world, whoever you're serving your business to. So I have to imagine there's some threads there that are going to impact, like, your overall bottom line.

MG: Mhmm.

KJ: And I think at the end of the day, and especially with the way that this current market is operating, where things are so up and down, and employees are leaving and jumping every year to two years, it’s an opportunity to maybe create a little more longevity for your employees.

If they feel like the company is really seeing them as their whole human self and wanting to take care and help nourish that. I also feel that, like, this is an opinion, of course, but I also feel that when you are showing up from a place of balance and regulation, you're really able to, like, open up to purpose in a way that when you're maybe more frantic or stressed or feeling out of balance, like, we tend to maybe lose that connection to the why and the purpose. And, like, studies show that if you are connected to a greater why and a greater purpose, like, you're going to perform better. It's that simple.

MG: Yes. The way that I show up in corporate now is so different than it was two years ago, three years ago, four years ago. And in part, because I took two years away from corporate, or maybe in corporate but in a different way, where I don't know for a decade, really, I've been spending time learning how to regulate myself. Learning how to be in my body, learning how to open myself to what, what is going on within me. And I know that these words maybe sound a little woo woo and out there, but really what I mean is I've learned to feel anger when I feel angry. Right? As opposed to pushing it down. I've learned to lean into fear when I'm feeling fear. I've learned to state when I'm feeling nervous. I've learned to work with my body and pay attention to what's going on.

And in doing that, which really is just noticing, which seems so simple, but you're right. It is actually, it's something that we've been conditioned not to do, so it's almost like there's a learning curve to get back to that place. But in doing that, I show up to my job now from such a grounded place, so certain that I'm choosing to be there every day. Where everything that I do, I'm giving 100% of myself to. Where I'm not feeling burnt out. Where I'm not feeling panicked. Where I'm not reacting to what's going on around me.

And I am certain that my impact is 10 times, if not more than what it was when I was working elsewhere. And it's not because of where I was working before, it's because the way that I was showing up before wasn't so connected to myself. Because I would be working from my neck up and not connected at all to my body. And I would be ignoring my body when I was uncomfortable, and I would be ignoring the feelings that I was feeling. Whenever I was feeling them, I would be pushing it all down.

And when I did that, I lacked the ability to see the big picture, both with my work, but also just for the business all up. Like, when I worked at Microsoft, you know, to make a business justification to do something, of course, I knew all the steps to go through, but I couldn't connect myself to that greater picture, that bigger vision. Because sometimes I was working out of reactivity or franticness or like, “Oh my god. There's a board meeting, and we all have to fire! fire! Like, put these slides together!”

Which is a very different place than, “Yes, there's something that's, you know, really pressing here, and is this the best use of our time?” Right?

Like, “And let's pause for a second.” And it takes, you know, 30 seconds to pause. It takes less than 30 seconds to pause and to reorient yourself. And that's not something that I had ever learned from the corporate space. You know? Like, I think, I think had I not done years and years of yoga, this wouldn't have even been on my radar.

And so I can say from my own personal experience that the way that I've showed up, you know, I would say in somatic awareness and out of somatic awareness, it's two completely different ways of being. And on top of that, I can see that my results are two completely different sets of results.

And then on top of that, what I can say is when I am able to show up in a particular way that's grounded, that's resourced, that's nourished, that ripples into my team. Where my team picks up on my energy, and then they end up also being grounded and resourced and nourished. And I think part of that reason, by the way, is because we learn as babies first co-regulation before we learn regulation. And so something that I've talked about on a previous episode or will have been a previous episode by the time this episode is live is that, you know, regulation is something that we should have been taught by our parents. But in many ways, we missed out on, and so we have to relearn a lot of the components of regulating.

It's as simple as, you know, when we cried, did our parents pick us up? Were they picking us up from a really calm place? Were they anxious? You know? Like, I grew up in a family with not a lot of money, so I remember money always being a thing. My parents were always stressed about money. There was always something going on. And so I can only imagine, you know, when you're, when you're experiencing a low level of anxiety 24/7 and then your kid is like, “Mom, I need you!” And then you hold your kid, your nervous system is probably not regulated.

And so you're not you're you're also not able then to regulate their nervous system. Right? Like, they can't co-regulate from you. And then on top of that, children learn from their parents, you know, how their parents respond to stress. And so if their parents' numbed or distracted or avoided, then we pick up on the same things. Right?

So many of us, I think, have grown up, you know, not in the same situation, but in scenarios where we have been almost robbed of the experience of just, of just regulation. And it seems so simple, but, you know, in regulating one human being on your team, you, it really does ripple out into the whole team. And then as the whole team begins to learn how to do that, it does ripple out into a whole whole organization. And then that ripples out into the entire business. Right? And then that ripples out into the world.

And so I know we're not talking hard and fast numbers here, but I can say from personal experience, both in the seat of someone working in corporate, but also in the seat of a workshop host or facilitator, that there are, you know, results that, that matter. Yeah.

KJ: 100%. I love everything you just said, and it's so, like, this is so pertinent to, like, the future success of the working world.

One thing that I wanna just, like, throw out right now since we're talking so much about it is for listeners that are maybe new to understanding nervous system regulation, like, regulation doesn't mean that you are never going to experience the vast array of responses that our nervous system has. Right?

So to be super clear, this does not mean that we train and control ourselves to stay at, like, a steady state forever. Like, that is not what regulation means. I think the word regulation can maybe come across, like, maybe we, we're trying to control something. And that is very much not the case.

Nervous system regulation really means that you can allow the peaks and valleys and the waves of what your nervous system is doing when it's doing its job, and you can still allow yourself to come back into a balanced state. So I wanna, I wanna just say that really quickly.

The other thing that you're talking about, Marie, is this, this idea of coregulation. And where my mind wanted to go with this, when we're talking about how do we incorporate this into the workplace, like, how many times have you showed up to a meeting and the energy is just all over the place. Right?

Like, you can tell Susan in the corner has had a super rough day with a client, and she's, like, activated. You can tell Bob over here didn't sleep last night, so he's exhausted and so on. Right? Like, everybody shows up in a different state, and that's not a bad thing, to be clear. Showing up as yourself is, is great. And what if we were to just kick off every meeting with, like, 30 seconds of coregulation practices. Like the whole room breathing together. Right? Like, coming into regulation with one another.

And I again, I'm not a scientist here. I don't have data to support my theory, but if we're able to co-regulate with coworkers and business partners, like, what does that mean for the success of the meeting or the success of the outcome of the thing that we're trying to build or deliver together? Like, what could that potentially look like if we're coming from a balanced and regulated state together, not just individually?

MG: Yes. I think, so many things, but one thing I immediately think about is how much money a meeting costs in the corporate world. If you like take everybody's salaries and you break it down. And I was like, it's terrible. But like, that's where my head goes. I remember we used to say this when I worked at Microsoft. We'd be like, ‘Oh, that was a $10,000 meeting’ or just something, you know, that would and we would be joking about a meeting that was a waste of everyone's time.

Like, ‘Oh, we just not only wasted everyone's time, but we wasted, like, $10,000 of company resources’ or whatever the, whatever the number that we suspected it was.

When I became an entrepreneur and I started hiring people, I was like, ‘Oh, shit.’ Like, I started being like, ‘I know exactly how much money that meeting cost.’ Right? Like, like, because I was the one paying for that meeting. And I'd be like, ‘Yes, everybody show up!’ And, and suddenly, I was like, ‘Oh, wait, this person's not needed, or we don't need to talk about this topic, or, like, let's cut the time down’ or, like, you know, whatever the thing was. My, my brain worked very differently.

And now, and…but what's interesting though is as, you know, Business Marie, business-owner Marie, leading a team of people is so different than how I've seen so many people in corporate lead their teams. And by that, we always do start with regular – well, right now I have a team of one, two: me and another person – but prior to and I had a slightly bigger team, we always started with some sort of regulating practice, some sort of group practice.

Maybe it wasn't breath work, but we would pull a tarot card or we would talk about how we're feeling or we talk about what we were showing up with. But we always took that time in the beginning just to lay everything on the table, but also bring ourselves to almost like one state of being. Like, we would drop in together. I used to use that in yoga, but I use that as well, at work.

And I do think that it definitely affected the outcome of the meetings because when you take that initial time, you know, five minutes or less, but even 30 seconds, and you allow your whole team to drop in, suddenly people are not multitasking. You have people's whole attention. You have people all on the same wavelength, and so you're not repeating yourself. There's no, like, duplication of efforts. I'll say the conversations are a lot less abrasive. People are not, like, disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, but rather disagreeing when there's actually something to disagree about or something to dig into deeper. It's a whole different result and a whole different feeling.

I've also led mindful kickoffs, which is something very similar. Now that you say that, I'm like, ‘oh, this is totally co-regulation for a group of people,’ for all hands and things like that. And what I will say is that the attention that people will give you, if you just give them 30 seconds to breathe and to be in their body, it's a whole different level of attention that, then if you just, like, are like, ‘Hey, guys. We're starting the meeting. What's going on? Blah blah blah blah blah. Like, right into topic 1, topic 2.’ And people aren't even fully there yet. Right? People aren't even fully present yet.

And so giving that space, I think, changes everything. I think the success is, is larger, but then, again, the dollar spend for the meeting feels a lot more productive. That's where my brain goes.

Something else that I think about, so almost going back to what you said before we talked about coregulation of coworkers, you mentioned that regulation is allowing for the peaks and the valleys and the waves of what the nervous system does. It's almost like accepting what the human experience is without trying to control it and coming into a balanced state. I wanna go into this a little bit more because I can imagine some folks that work in the corporate space that I have talked to that are maybe clients of mine who would respond, being like, ‘Yeah. But I've always navigated the peaks and valleys of my existence, and I don't have a problem at all with feeling all of my feelings. And I've made it this far.’ And so, like, why does this matter? Why is this important?

I could just see this response. I can hear it in my ears right now just from having conversations with big corporate groups and hearing their responses. And so I'm curious: What is the difference between really allowing yourself to experience the peaks and the valleys without being thrown off by them versus forcing your way through it?

And this is something I'll say this thing, and then I'll and then I'm gonna hand it over to you. This is something I think about a lot when I think about mindset coaching versus somatic coaching. I think that you need both. But what I've come to find is that when you do a lot of mindset coaching without tapping into the body, you learn to force your way through everything versus when you're with the body, you learn a different way of moving through things.

And so, you know, one example would be I did a, I delivered a workshop not too long ago, and one of the women said, you know, ‘I don't I don't have any negative thoughts because immediately when I think something negative, I re…I'm already reframing it into something positive.’

And I was kind of like, “Okay, like, maybe you do have some negative thoughts and feelings that are there, but maybe you're distracting.” Right? Like, maybe something else is going on there, but there's almost like a truly missing link or a lack of awareness in terms of what's really happening under this, under the surface.

And so I'm curious from your perspective of, like, how do you know, how do you know that you could actually benefit from some of this work? How do you know that there could be dysregulation? How do you know, you know, if you're someone that's like, oh, no. I've made it this far. I don't need that. How would you respond to that? What comes to you?

KJ: Mmm…my first response is that I'm just giggling a little bit from love, of course, because I get it. I understand. And I also think that if the response is, ‘I've made it this far in life and I just reframe my thoughts to get there,’ like, that's a very heady response from the neck up as you talked about earlier. That's a very logical, linear, brain-based response. Right?

So, I think it would be really interesting to invite some folks that maybe are used to reframing thoughts to make changes or reframing negative thoughts to only positive ones to…to not necessarily stop that behavior, but to invite them to open their awareness to what could be possible if you married the mind and body together and not just operated from the mind. What might be there for you if you were to understand what your body's feeling, without needing to change it, and without needing to label it? What might be there for you?

I also think that there is a sneaky ceiling that happens sometimes if we only focus on mindset. So, I do a lot of mindset coaching too with my clients, and I think that it is really beneficial in a lot of ways. And now that I'm starting to incorporate more somatic work, I'm seeing, like, where this really could help with shifts and transformations for folks. But my belief is that mindset coaching and mindset work alone will eventually hit a ceiling. And why I think that, that happens is because our mind can only create so much change before the body is no longer caught up with the mind from a safety perspective.

So if our mind is constantly focusing on reframing the thought that, ‘Okay, later this year, I'm gonna leave corporate. I'm gonna start my own business.’ Okay. ‘What's, what are the thoughts that I need to think in order to make that happen? What are the actions I need to take? Alright. I'm gonna focus on these specific five thoughts every single day this year.’ Great. Awesome practice. And if your body is presenting resistance to you and you're ignoring it because you want to outthink it, you're only gonna get so far with that goal.

Because you are in ess…essentially bypassing what your body wants to say or present. So we also need to create awareness around our body's wisdom, to allow for the body to feel safe and build security in this shift that your mind wants to make for you.

Because if you make a big change without bringing your body into it, like, your body's gonna be like, ‘Oh, god. Like, this doesn't feel good.’ And then you're gonna keep pushing through it, and you're gonna wonder why health problems are coming up, or why you can only go so far with that idea. Right? Like, we know where that goes.

MG: Mhmm. Yeah and I think immediately of burnout and exhaustion. I know, I know for myself in the past, especially in the corporate world, learning how to push, push, push, push, push past everything. And then I think especially as, like, a multi-passionate person, I I say this to all of my clients who have like 15 different projects going on at one time and often are juggling a job, that it's so easy to get caught up in the deliverables and what it is that you have to do and what it is that you're focusing on and to be there mentally. But then it feels so hard when physically or even emotionally, you can't meet that same intensity, right? That exists. And I think you can do this for a certain point of time, but I love how you mentioned that mindset work has a ceiling because it truly, it can only get you so far.

And there is a point in which you're just like, ‘I'm exhausted and I'm burnt out. And I am saying my affirmations every single day and I'm doing all the things and I'm like, all of this is happening, but I feel stuck. I feel frustrated. I don't know what's going on. I don't know why this suddenly feels so hard. I've always been able to, this is something I love.’

My clients say this to me all the time, especially as they're a little bit more mature in their career of, like, I've always been able to do this. Why can't I do this anymore? Why is this so hard all of a sudden? And it's like, oh, because maybe your body has a bunch of stuff stored in it, and is, like, tired of you ignoring it. Right?

So I wanna let's talk about this more. You mentioned the body feeling safe and building security for the body. What does this mean?

KJ: There's probably a lot of different answers that you would hear from somatic practitioners and, and folks on this. But speaking from my experience, I know that my body feels safe and that something I am experiencing or deciding on feels safe when there is this feeling of, like, neutrality in my body where it feels settled.

Now that isn't necessarily always the case, and I wanna be clear that if there are other feelings that come up in the body, that's not a bad thing, and it does not mean that it's unsafe or unsettled. Right? Sometimes we make a big decision that creates excitement in the body, and so our chest is really feeling that, and we're getting activated through the chest. Maybe we're making a decision that is a safe decision, but we've got butterflies in our stomach, and there's, like, a little bit of nervousness around it. Again, I wanna be clear that's not necessarily telling you that it's an unsafe decision.

And so, again, this really is an individual thing where the more you connect with your body somatically, the more you create awareness around what the cues are that come up for you with your body and the more that you allow yourself to really listen to those cues without judgment, without trying to change it, without having to answer any questions around why it's doing this. But just to simply listen to it, so much wisdom and knowledge will come forth for you that will immediately, like, feed your intuition the answer of, like, this is safety. This is security.

And that's not an overnight change, to be clear, like, that takes practice. It takes practice, and it takes some time to really build that connection, especially because, as we've talked about, we weren't taught how to do this. We weren't taught to pay attention to the body. But that's, for me, like, what it feels like when my body is in a state of safety and security.

MG: I love the equation to neutrality. I love that so much. And I think it's such a beautiful demonstration as well, or knowing of when something is truly safe. When you are thinking about something and you feel truly neutral, right? There's really no emotional kind of flutter. And I think what you said, I think is also really important in terms of sometimes we might not feel safe. Like, sometimes the body might have a reaction, and that doesn't mean that the decision isn't right for us. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't do it. It just means that because, you know, anything that's brand new, by the way, is not ever gonna feel safe. Anything that we've never experienced before is not gonna feel immediately safe.

And so there's, there, there's work that we can do to bring ourselves along there. But what doesn't work is ignoring that. Right? And I think, I think a lot of us, especially folks who are really accomplished in their lives, have learned the art of ignoring that.

You know, I think about myself when I was in my early twenties, I was reading all the books and all the magazines about just how to be the best working professional possible. And I wanted to achieve all the things. And I was reading about how important it was to make yourself uncomfortable because when you're uncomfortable, you're growing. And so moving from the head, not the body, I put myself over and over and over and over again into situations that made me extremely, wildly uncomfortable. And then at some point, it stopped working. Right?

There would be like a holdup of like, woah, okay. This is it's and it wasn't even like this is too of a but but mentally I was like, ‘Oh, but I've done this before. Why is this so hard? Why does this feel so difficult?’ And it's because I'd been ignoring my body for so long when my body said, ‘Oh, this is uncomfortable!’ Which wasn't a ‘Stop, don't do it.’ It was just like, ‘Hey, I'm here. Acknowledge me.’ Right? ‘Hey, I'm here. Be here with me. Hey, I'm here. Let's move through this together.’

And I always read that as like, ‘Oh, I'm I'm uncomfortable. I should just keep going forward. Force. Force. Force. Do do do do it anyways. You'll feel better.’ And yeah, and so I think about how might we begin to notice and, and begin to generate safety for ourselves when we want to move forward with something…when it feels uncomfortable.

KJ: Yeah. That's a great question. And I, I think there is something to be said to to put yourself in uncomfortable – I wanna be clear: uncomfortable, not unsafe situations – to, in a sense, like, train ourselves to be with discomfort. So I think that there is definitely some benefit there for sure.

Like, think about, like, your working out or your training. And if you have a specific goal or something that you're training for, like, when you go into your training session each day and you try to be a little bit better each day, like, you're training your body to to deal with discomfort and to be okay with discomfort so that you can accomplish that goal. Right? So I think that there is something to be said for that.

And that isn't the only way. I think that's a, a good way to potentially put yourself on a path for burnout if that is your only strategy to create safety for yourself. I think that as humans, we need to be really aware and notice when we do feel safety. So really being, I think, observant of moments that you feel safety.

What's happening in that moment?

What is the environment that you're in?

What is your body doing?

What is it feeling?

What has allowed for this feeling, this sense of safety to occur for you?

And really noticing those things so that you can replicate that if need be. You can come back to that grounding force, that's, that sense of security.

One of the practices that Sarah has taught us in Regenerative Alchemy is around resourcing. She'll have us really kinda, like, take a look around our space before we look at the camera, if it's a Zoom call, and just notice what's in our space. Is it a plant? Is there a cup of coffee or tea? Is there a crystal? Is there an object that catches our eye that we keep coming back to?

And what does it feel like? What does it look like? What do we notice about it? And it's building that relationship of, like, safety and security with that object. This is just an example.

So that if and when during a somatic session, you need to reach for safety, you've already established that ahead of time. So that's a practice that is new to me, but I'm loving it because you're already sort of setting yourself up to always have something to come back to if and when you need to pull yourself back into a state of being that feels safe.

MG: How easy and simple, and not time consuming at all, it is to ground into an object on your desk as you're starting a meeting. Right? Looking down at your desk and noticing what's on your desk. No one would even notice you doing that. And yet, you know, when you notice, say, your heart rate rise or a feeling come up in you as you're listening or as you're participating to reground and relook at that thing on your desk and know that there is safety where you are physically. I love this. This is so, this is so cool.

Something that I learned as well during my somatic training was something really, really similar. What we would do at the beginning of every call was a safety check.

So we would look around the room and actually ask. You've probably actually experienced this in TQS a time or two, but we would look around the room and ask, ‘Does this room feel safe?’

If no, ‘What can I do to make it feel safe?’ Right? Like, ‘What would make this feel better?”

And sometimes maybe it's like, like right now, well, you can't see it, but my door behind me is open. And behind that door, the, like, front door to my house is, if you if you just keep going straight down the hallway, and so I have a mirror actually to my right so that I can always see the door behind me. And I can always see the front of the house, the door to the front of the house. And, like, psychologically, that makes me feel safe knowing that no one's gonna sneak up behind me. Right? So, like, something very small that I could do.

But that's we always started with that very simple check of, ‘Hey, just peep around your room. Does your room feel safe?’ Does your…I love this one…’Does your chair feel safe?’ Do, like, do you feel like your chair is gonna give out underneath of you? If not, acknowledge that. Right?

One of my favorites was asking the question of, ‘Do you have enough oxygen?’ Something that we don't think about ever. Like, will there be enough air when you breathe in? How do you know that? Right? And, you know, just having these things almost to ground ourselves and anchor ourselves when there's a moment of feeling unsafe in a meeting or feeling unsafe in an interaction, recognizing, ‘Okay, there's enough air for me to breathe.’ Which seems so simple, but it takes you so far actually.

Asking, you know, something that I love to do in sessions is double checking and asking if the people who I'm in session with feel safe with me. Do you feel safe with the facilitator in front of you? In a meeting, double checking with yourself. You don't have to say anything out loud, but just ask yourself, you know, ask your body, ‘Hey. Do you feel safe with the person leading this meeting? Do you feel safe in this Zoom call with these 10 strangers or these 10 people that you work with all the time?’ and just noticing what arises, right? That awareness and developing that awareness.

Another question that my coach used to ask was, ‘Do you feel spiritually safe?’ Like, ‘Do you feel energetically safe?’ And just checking in there too, to notice of where can I root down or anchor in safety and where can I make some adjustments?

And sometimes, you know, you'll find that maybe you don't feel safe in a Zoom call with this one particular person, and maybe you never will feel safe in the Zoom call with that person. But knowing that and then grounding into something else can make worlds of a difference versus not paying attention, not knowing, and then ignoring that very strange, vague, underlying feeling that just arises every time you see this particular person. It, it gets you so much further, I think.

KJ: Yeah. Oh, I love these so much. And just imagine…imagine how the culture of corporate America might shift if we were to start meetings in this way. Right?

And I already hear the pushback, like I hear it. ‘Why do we need this? That's a waste of time.’ Like, I get it, I hear it. But ensuring everyone feels spiritually, emotionally, physically, psychologically safe, and comfortable when they show up is so important. You're going to get so much more out of that human.

And I don't mean just productivity wise. Like, I am not talking about, ‘You're going to get more work out of them.’ Like, that's not what I mean. I mean, you're going to get more fullness from them. More energy, more clarity, more passion, like, if they feel they are really, like, safe as themselves and safe in that environment.

MG: And I will add, you *will* get more productivity out of them.

KJ: That's the language you'll use for corporate.

MG: You will get more. Because I think when people are able to show up in more fullness, you know, there's a difference between productivity and and busyness. And I think a lot of what happens in the corporate world is busyness.

And I think that we talk a lot about how we want more productivity and we want more productivity, but a lot of times when we're saying that, what we're really saying is I want people to be busy and that busy work to drive results. And busy work is not usually the thing that drives results. Right? It's very, like, focused, precision, productive work, which arguably doesn't take 40 hours every single week for every single person, but / and that's not the point. I think that when we are able to show up fully, energized with clarity, with passion, feeling psychologically safe, learning, knowing how to source that safety from within, but also knowing how to cultivate that safety for others, the results are transformative. And I think we, we are so much more productive. Companies, corporate, does get so much more juice out of its people *and* it doesn't look like busy work. You know? So I think it does shift.

KJ: There's some work to be done here, but I'm positive about it. I really am. I really am.

MG: Yeah. I am too. I am too. I feel like there is…there is appetite for this work. In the very least, you know, I think there's appetite from the corporate space, but in the very least, I think at an individual level, so many of us have come to a place of no longer being able to just push ourselves and, like, mindlessly show up and / or, like, check out. And, and I think, you know, as more and more people reach that and face that, it's just something that will have to be addressed at a wider level. Right?

Yeah, and I I'm totally, I'm fully with you. I, I do believe that we are all sovereign beings. I'm pro sovereignty. I'm pro doing what we individually need to do to take care of ourselves, and, you know, as somebody who has managed people and as somebody who has, you know, hired people for myself, but also for corporate, it is really important to me to cultivate environments that allow people to flourish. Because, I mean, work is like such a huge part of everyone's life. If you have a job, 40 hours a week is not a small amount. Especially if you put in more than 40 hours a week, it's not chump change. You know? It's, it's huge, actually. And so it really does matter, the quality of our existence during those 40 hours. It really does matter

The quality of our being during those 40 hours. And, you know, I think the more people decide that they don't wanna just live for the weekend and the weeknights, but, really, the weekends and the holidays, the more we will be forced as a society, but also as corporate cultures to address that and to help alleviate some of that because, yeah, I don't think we have the, I don't think we just generally, availably have the tools that we need.

KJ: Totally. We, we were not taught this growing up. We weren't taught this in school. We're not taught this when we're onboarding for our first job out of school. Right?

Like, this is, for a lot of people, brand spanking new wisdom. And I think I'm encouraged when you say there's an appetite for this, and I know you're really tapped into a lot of different corporate communities. So I just am really interested to see how things evolve over the next couple of decades. Right? Like, can we really mean it when we tell people to bring them their full selves to work and to show up authentically? Like, can we get to a place where we really mean it and not just mean it, but support it in the ways that we talked about today?

MG: Yeah. I hope so. I just think about the tremendous impact that, you know, every business and corporation has on the planet and all of the human beings, but all of the everything, animals, plants, nature, everything. And it's, it's not small. So I hope, I hope that we can get to the place where we can really mean it. I hope that we can get to the place where we can really support it. I hope that we can prioritize human nourishment knowing that it will add to revenue, but over revenue as well.

KJ: Yeah. Totally agree.

MG: Any other kind of thoughts? I do, I do wanna ask if maybe you have like, some tips or just a small offering for someone who is in the corporate grind, how they might start their day or how they might, you know, take 30 seconds and begin to develop their own inner awareness?

KJ: Mmm, this question is so timely. I was just speaking with a client this past week and she is in between jobs right now in corporate and uncomfortable with not feeling productive right now. And so we talked a little bit about her morning routine where she gets up, lets the dogs out, makes coffee, gets online, gets on LinkedIn, applies for jobs, networks, like, like, all the things. Right?

And so my homework, my invitation to her was, before you get on LinkedIn or check your email or think about applying to a job, pull out your journal, and just write for 3 pages.

I can't remember the woman who developed this, but the practice is called Morning Pages. There are no rules to how you go about this, what you write, the topic, no rules, period. So it is literally just a stream of consciousness for 3 pages. And it could even be, ‘I hate this exercise. Why is Kelly making me do this? Oh my gosh. I don't have anything to say. Okay. I have so much I have to do today.’ Right?

So, like, just as an example, it can really be anything that is in your stream of consciousness. And, really, the goal here is to brain dump, first off, because I think that we, as speaking just for me as a woman, like, corporate women, like, we wake up and our brains are like, go go go. Right? And I think there's a lot of benefit to just building some space between our wake up and getting into our day. So really just brain dumping.

And then I think over time, it would be really interesting to notice, like, what is showing up on those pages. Is your intuition talking? Is there anything creative coming up? Are there any ideas that want to come forth about anything? Doesn't have to be career wise.

So it's an exercise that allows connection to self, for sure.

And I think as a secondary exercise, connecting with the body first thing in the day, even before you get out of bed. Before you even open your eyes, if you place a hand on your heart and just ask your body, ‘What does it need today? How am I feeling, and what does my body need today?’ And allowing that wisdom to come forth before, like, your brain fully comes online, before you're distracted with everything that's scheduled for your day, but just allowing a few seconds to check-in with your body. What does it need and how can you allow that to be your compass for the day?

MG: And I will add to that the first time you talk to your body and you ask it a question like, ‘How am I feeling?’ Or you ask the body, ‘Body, how are you feeling? Body, what do you need today?’ feels a little weird. But / and you'll be surprised that there's almost always an answer. And if you don't hear it immediately, if you don't feel it immediately, give yourself a moment of silence because it will always arise and you will always know exactly the thing to do. It's actually remarkable. Yeah. It's remarkable just how intuitive, how easy it is to be connected to the body, despite how easy it is to be disconnected to the body as well. Right? Despite how conditioned we have been to be disconnected from the body. It's, it's, it's like riding a bike that you never knew that you knew how to ride.

But truly it just comes to you. There's something that's always going to be there. Thank you so much for this, Kelly. You're amazing.

KJ: It was so good to be back on your show, Marie. Thank you so much for inviting me back. This is truly one of my favorite podcasts. I'm so happy to be back on here.

MG: You're so welcome. I'm so happy that you're here. And tell everyone what you're up to right now and how they can work for you work, work with you.

KJ: Oh my goodness. I have my signature one on one coaching container. I have a couple of openings there, and that is really for the person who wants to do a deep dive over the course of three months. I call it the create your F*ck Yes Life program.

So if you are someone who is in a place of feeling stuck, if you are in a place of, like, ‘Gosh, I know there's more meaning to where I'm currently at in life right now,’ and you want some really deep one on one support in this season of life, that is a great option for you.

And then secondarily, in the coming weeks, sometime here in April, I will be reopening the doors to my monthly membership, The Corporate Coven. Which is my community for corporate women who are looking for community, looking for more purpose, looking for some tools and guidance around ‘How do I either experience my corporate career in a more fulfilling way,’ and / or ‘How do I eventually leave and go do the thing that I really wanna do?’ So that is a beautiful community to be a part of. The women are just pure magic every time we show up together. So stay tuned. The doors will be opening there.

I'm sure you'll link my, my profiles in the show notes, Marie. My last name will be changing soon, so I don't wanna, like, speak to where my profiles are because it may change soon. But hit up Marie. She can get you connected with me.

MG: I definitely can. I've got your back. Yeah. What incredible, what incredible work. I can, I can testify right before this call? Floating a couple questions by Kelly. She's amazing. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you will have heard her maybe a year ago, maybe 2 years ago. It's been a while. She's been around. We've been connected for a while, and I would trust her with my whole heart.

So if you're feeling the call for 1 on 1 coaching, if you're feeling the call for a community of like-minded women, a safe space to open up, I highly, highly recommend. I couldn't recommend her work more. And I can't wait to bring her back on the show, by the way, because we didn't even get to talk about feminine leadership, which is definitely on the docket. So maybe we'll hear from you again in a few weeks.

KJ: I'm sure I'll be back. I can't wait!

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Thank you so much for listening to The Spiritual 9 to 5 Podcast. I'm your host, Marie Groover, and I am beyond honored that you are here. Please follow, save and rate the show. And if you can share your favorite episode with a friend, it makes the world of a difference. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I would love to hear from you what you think about the show or my work, so don't be shy. And I'm always here to connect and support you or your business through coaching, team building and leadership development. You can find my work in the show notes.

Until next time, Big love.

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Shownotes:

After spending years climbing the 9-5 corporate ladder, Kelly Jackson experienced a soul awakening that took her off the corporate path and into her deeper purpose. Now Kelly is a Certified Life Coach and spiritual mentor who supports corporate women plotting their escape from the grind.

In this conversation, Kelly and Marie explore how corporate careers dysregulate us and the many ways we can learn to listen to our bodies and find fulfillment in our work.

We discuss how to know you’re dysregulated, why corporate norms are so harmful, ways to listen to your body, and why we have to stop operating only from the neck up.

The episode is offered for anyone feeling stuck in their career. If you enjoy it, learn more about Kelly’s work, follow her on Instagram, and connect on LinkedIn.

References:

Regenerative Alchemy with Dr. Sarah Coxon

From IQ to EQ by Essential Teams

Morning Pages from the book The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron

The Corporate Coven by Kelly Jackson

Links:

Marie Groover ⁠https://www.mariegroover.com/⁠

The Corporate Psychic ⁠https://www.thecorppsychic.com/⁠

Essential Teams ⁠https://www.youressentialteam.com/⁠

Connect on LinkedIn ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/cmariegroover/⁠

Join the Mailing List ⁠https://thecorppsychic.myflodesk.com/e7bmhjidj4⁠